How Neville and Lineker became rival podcast moguls

With 250,000 paying members, Goalhanger claims it gets more than 75 million downloads of its podcasts each month, and reportedly had profits of more than £3m in the second half of 2024.

Last year it partnered with DAZN to be able to show action from the Club World Cup, and also has a three-year deal with Spain's La Liga, with rights to weekly clips. It has also secured minority investment from a private equity company, as it seeks US expansion and new formats.

Who has the advantage?

Like Neville, Lineker's network has developed spin-offs, but the Goalhanger brand extends well beyond sport.

At the time of writing, its various podcasts dominate the top 40 of the Spotify podcast charts with its shows on politics (1st, 8th and 11th), history (6th), entertainment (9th) football (13th), and science (38th).

The Overlap's Stick to Football is at 17th. On Apple's charts, Goalhanger enjoyed an even tighter grip with the top four podcasts.

On YouTube however, The Overlap is ahead with 1.66m subscribers, three times more than The Rest is Football. The Overlap will also record shows from the US during the World Cup.

"I don't think we're rivals necessarily, but I've no problem if people want to think that," says Scott Melvin, who co-founded and runs The Overlap alongside Neville.

"They've done unbelievably well," he says when asked about Goalhanger.

"They're market leaders in the podcast space, whereas we're a 'video-first' business. They were 'eyes optional', and now pivoting into some video. We've always said we're 'ears optional'."

Lineker's Goalhanger co-founder Tony Pastor agrees that the two companies "have some similarities but in many ways we're very different".

"We've taken a broader approach in terms of genres," he explained.

"Our biggest show in the UK is The Rest Is Politics, and our biggest show worldwide is The Rest Is History. We don't really compete with Buzz16, we have different business models. I'm a massive fan of what they do."

A challenge for traditional media?

Image caption,

Neville joined Sky Sports after retiring in 2011

So what kind of challenge does Lineker and Neville's success pose to mainstream broadcasters?

"They are still niche, small businesses, admittedly with huge influence over fans and reach, but their turnover is very modest so they aren't taking on the big legacy media brands when it comes to hard business numbers", says Jimmy Worrall, who recently launched The Football Boardroom podcast after setting up a media business with former England manager Gareth Southgate.

"That said, they are taking eyeballs, and tapping into the shifting patterns of fans, and the way they consume sports news.

"Don't forget they don't have the real gold (premium live content).

"They are all trying to diversify and because they are nimble and entrepreneurial, and now have access to capital, they can now buy growth as well as take risk on new shows, both have speed to market and they could conceivably grow to be some significant media businesses if they invest heavily and quickly.

"They will need to constantly evolve, that is for sure."

"It definitely makes life tricky for the established broadcaster," says Roger Mosey, a former BBC executive, when asked about the rise of athlete-driven content.

"They are bound, overall, to be impartial - they can't be 'Manchester United TV' or 'the anti-VAR channel' or whatever.

"And the mainstream broadcasters are still governed by regulation and their traditions, which means that they can't be as vigorous or sweary or impassioned as a podcast can."

During the 2024 Euros, Lineker faced scrutiny for being more outspoken about England's performances on his podcast than he was when presenting BBC coverage during the same tournament.

His 30-year relationship with the BBC then ended last year amid controversy over a social media post about Zionism.

In contrast, Neville continues to work for Sky as its leading pundit. Goldbridge has insisted he will continue to say what he wants since being acquired by The Overlap.

But is there a risk that an outburst about United could conflict with Neville's role at Sky, or his relationship with United or their fans?

"If I was Sky, I would be watching Stick to Football every week knowing there's no commercial upside but potential brand downside if the editorial tone is off brand because the talent is inextricably linked to Sky," says Worrall.

"If I was Neville I would be watching Mark Goldbridge thinking the same, except he has the commercial upside as well.

"It's one thing having a fan rant at the performance of the club, it's another to have one of the most decorated players in their history fund and facilitate that rant. That won't be an easy one to square off."

"We see it as being separate", insists Melvin. "There's no point investing in Mark and turning him into a traditional presenter. What we want to do is grow his channels with him."

Another factor was to have more of a daily offering via Goldbridge's channels.

"When [former United manager] Ruben Amorim was sacked we didn't have a Stick To Football show scheduled for 10 days so we didn't talk about it until then", recalls Melvin.

"We can't do that. We have to be able to be agile."

Can others compete?

Lineker and Neville are part of a much wider trend that has seen a number of football personalities launch their own media channels and businesses in order to communicate directly with fans while retaining control over their content.

Former United defender Rio Ferdinand - who left his role with TNT Sport to pursue his own content production business - has said global digital platforms allow pundits to circumvent the limits that accompany traditional broadcasts in terms of programme durations, and rights-holder based territories.

"I am sure others will follow although it's one thing building a media platform around a sports star's 'brand' (low risk and high return), while they are playing, and another building a real media business - which requires money, huge amounts of effort, people to manage, and significant risk," says Worrall.

"Building a business takes an immense amount of effort and it's not for everyone. But there is no reason why players or former players can't do it if they have the passion and motivation to do so.

"I don't think the industry has peaked by any stretch but I do think even the most successful podcasts will peak and then drop - they will have a lifecycle.

"And to make a podcast work is much more complex than people think: committed talent, aligned business model, high production values, constant innovation, research, social activation, audience engagement, infrastructure and subject matter or an entertainment format that serves an audience and has some form of longevity, and talent-led shows ultimately become outdated."

And what of the smaller content creators and production companies who are now trying to compete with Goalhanger and The Overlap?

"It's not a 'winner takes all' market," says Mike Carr, who runs Crowd Network, which develops digital sports media brands with former stars such as England cricketer Stuart Broad and rugby player Ben Youngs.

"It's still really early in terms of audience growth, especially on YouTube. There's still huge room to build - what Lineker and Neville have done is help to educate brands and audiences on the power of the space.

"What we do is slightly different. Rather than seeing them as competition, they have helped to accelerate the market."

"I hope Goalhanger proves that if you get your content offering right you can achieve the kind of scale that supports a successful modern media business," says Pastor.

"We've created 80 jobs which is great, but we've also proven that millions of people still want to listen to and watch long form, intelligent, hopefully entertaining content. And that has to be good news for everyone."